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micky

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But was Trump not bashing HER (or Omar) for the exact same thing he's doing now? I don't even attempt to pretend to understand the political issues that are going on in Israel. What opinions I have I understand are born out of a good deal of ignorance. Which I suspect puts me with the majority of people. Even those on the right that support Israel.
Nope. Trump was bashing her and Omar for being anti-semitic. He has been for a while now. Since he constantly goes after the Democratic party, he's also dragged them into his temper tantrum by saying they are defending Tlaib and Omar over the state of Israel, basically suggesting the Democratic party is anti-semitic as well. Following that comment ("Where has the Democratic Party gone? Where have they gone where they are defending these two people over the state of Israel?"), he stated "I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty." and "If you vote for a Democrat, you’re being disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel."

Bottom line, Trump is a fucking moron. An interesting read here on why the right supports Israel...
 
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The idea that this is enough to call people a racist is beyond mind boggling to me.
Yep. It's astounding how easily he, as a racist, calls others racist. Clearly he doesn't understand what racism is. He can't spell the word, either, so I'm not shocked.
 
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Bernie and Elizabeth Warren are obviously both still very sharp even though they're 70+, but that's today. They're also wayyy more likely than they would have been 10 years ago to decline mentally, develop heath problems, or just drop over dead. The presidency is on a different level compared to all other political positions, and the extreme wear that it puts on everyone that holds the job is pretty well documented.

I agree that age is just one factor among many, but I think it's a bigger factor than a lot of people think. Competency in general is much more important than most voters think. One silver lining of Donald Trump being elected president is that it very clearly illustrates the importance of a lot of non-policy aspects of the job that most people just take for granted.

Most of the big policy disagreements between the current candidates concern things that exist outside of what's realistically possible anyway. Things like Medicaid for all and free college can be stopped by a president, but they can't happen because of a president. If we could go back in time and replace 2008 Obama with Sanders, Olympia Snowe still wouldn't have voted for the public option, let alone Medicaid for all. Congress is who makes legislation and public opinion is what moves congress (sometimes). Sometimes a president can move public opinion on something a little bit, but usually it doesn't amount to much.

Because people tend to get tired of terrible things, public opinion has shifted a lot on health care and gun control, so we could very likely see meaningful legislation post-election. If we're talking about legislation that can actually get through congress, I'm pretty sure there's almost 0 difference between what a President Elizabeth Warren would sign into law vs. what a President Cory Booker would sign into law though.

p.s. People still greatly overrate Donald Trump's chances of being reelected. The idea that people are just going to stay home if they're not super excited about the Democratic nominee just isn't very realistic. Most people that disapprove of him would walk through lava to vote for an inflatable Santa over Trump. Anything can happen in a single election, but this one is about him, his number suck, and they're not going anywhere, other than possibly down if he keeps flailing like a madman.
 
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p.s. People still greatly overrate Donald Trump's chances of being reelected. The idea that people are just going to stay home if they're not super excited about the Democratic nominee just isn't very realistic. Most people that disapprove of him would walk through lava to vote for an inflatable Santa over Trump. Anything can happen in a single election, but this one is about him, his number suck, and they're not going anywhere, other than possibly down if he keeps flailing like a madman.
And THIS is why he got elected the first time. People underestimated his chances. His numbers weren't good then either. If you look at the electoral college map I'm not so sure it's as far fetched as you think. I hope you're right but I don't think it's crazy that he sweeps the rust belt and the south and wins again.
 
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It really is down to about 4 or 5 states. Florida, Pensylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin... Roughly 70% of the electoral votes are already known today. And another 15% are pretty sure which way they go.
 

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And THIS is why he got elected the first time. People underestimated his chances. His numbers weren't good then either. If you look at the electoral college map I'm not so sure it's as far fetched as you think. I hope you're right but I don't think it's crazy that he sweeps the rust belt and the south and wins again.
Unless I somehow inspire people to not vote, which isn't too likely, how I estimate Donald Trump's chances has 0 effect on whether or not he wins. His numbers are way down in the rust belt states that were key to him winning in 2016, and Republicans got destroyed in those states in the mid terms with turnout records all over the country shattered because people came out to vote against. That tide has not receded at all.
 
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Nope. Trump was bashing her and Omar for being anti-semitic. He has been for a while now. Since he constantly goes after the Democratic party, he's also dragged them into his temper tantrum by saying they are defending Tlaib and Omar over the state of Israel, basically suggesting the Democratic party is anti-semitic as well. Following that comment ("Where has the Democratic Party gone? Where have they gone where they are defending these two people over the state of Israel?"), he stated "I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty." and "If you vote for a Democrat, you’re being disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel."

Bottom line, Trump is a fucking moron. An interesting read here on why the right supports Israel...
I'm not trying to get dragged in here but the old guard of the right, many of whom are devout evangelical Christians, supports Israel because of the bible. Israel is Gods promised kingdom and the final book of the bible which is revelations tells Christians that Jesus will only return when palestine has been crushed, Jerusleum is handed back over to the jews and Israel reclaims all of the land in the middle east. That is the final sign that Jesus is set to return. So to Trump and many devout believers, being a jew and supporting the democratic party is turning your back on God because democrats want a two state solution and the bible says that all neighboring countries that have land disputes with Israel will be destroyed and Israel will reclaim all its borders. So you know, perfectly reasonable, logical, scientific reasons for supporting something...
 
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micky

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So to Trump and many devout believers, being a jew and supporting the democratic party is turning your back on God because democrats want a two state solution and the bible says that all neighboring countries that have land disputes with Israel will be destroyed and Israel will reclaim all its borders. So you know, perfectly reasonable, logical, scientific reasons for supporting something...
Yes, there are devout believers, but Trump is not one of them. He is about as Christian as the pen sitting next to me on my desk. Not all Democrats want a two-state solution, it's something that has been conflicted within the party for some time.

There is much more to this than religion. Netanyahu shares similar beliefs with the Republicans regarding foreign and economic policy, skepticism of the welfare state, and embracing free markets. He's had long-standing friendships with many Republican leaders. They see Israel as a huge ally, the only ally we have in the middle east (also the only democracy) and they pander to Netanyahu every chance they get. Also, don't forget about the Republican Jewish Coalition, who donate millions to Republican causes.

When Trump was just a candidate, he wouldn't even take a stance on Israel, saying he was going to be a "neutral kind of guy". So we all know what motivates him here...it sure isn't religion. He wants to pander to his base and keep his pockets lined with cash.
 
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GoldenTemple

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Yes, there are devout believers, but Trump is not one of them. He is about as Christian as the pen sitting next to me on my desk.
I believe he understands most of the old testament lore because of his families jewish background. Its clear he doesnt put into practice any of the biblical law in his personal life however.

Not all Democrats want a two-state solution, it's something that has been conflicted within the party for some time.
There is no real solution. Either there is a two state solution where neither side plays in good faith or fully honors the agreement. Like two men shaking hands while holding knives behind their back. OR the other solution is a violent takeover and genocide of the people in palestine. All of the worlds major religions say that the land is their holy land, there wont be a good working solution because you are dealing with highly irrational people who believe that killing others to reclaim the "holy land" is acceptable and pleasing to their God.

There is much more to this than religion. Netanyahu shares similar beliefs with the Republicans regarding foreign and economic policy, skepticism of the welfare state, and embracing free markets. He's had long-standing friendships with many Republican leaders. They see Israel as a huge ally, the only ally we have in the middle east (also the only democracy) and they pander to Netanyahu every chance they get. Also, don't forget about the Republican Jewish Coalition, who donate millions to Republican causes.
Absolutely correct to all of your points
When Trump was just a candidate, he wouldn't even take a stance on Israel, saying he was going to be a "neutral kind of guy". So we all know what motivates him here...it sure isn't religion. He wants to pander to his base and keep his pockets lined with cash.
88% of evangelicals voted for Trump. He understands his base very well. Ultra religious nationalists are his main base. Disgruntled, angry people who feel betrayed and forgotten about is who he attracts in the cross fire. Alot of his supporters are zealots who are waiting for God to show up and destroy the perceived wicked scum of society. (gays, muslims, transgenders, potheads, etc)

Next time you find a trump troll on twitter, go visit their page and you'll see the very first piece of information that they give you about themselves is that they are Christian lol Its so frequent is almost expected at this point to see someone saying something wild and inappropriate while claiming to know Jesus. I always like to share a few of my favorite passages with them.

Matthew 12:36 I tell you that men will give an account of the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.And by your words you will be acquitted, or by your words you will be condemned.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord,, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 
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micky

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I believe he understands most of the old testament lore because of his families jewish background. Its clear he doesnt put into practice any of the biblical law in his personal life however.
Are you referring to Jared and Ivanka? What other Jewish background does his family have other than his brother Fred joining a Jewish fraternity while in college?


88% of evangelicals voted for Trump.
This one I still can't figure out why, aside from geography and/or economics. Or, the hatred he spews aligns with their views (the racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc.)
 
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This one I still can't figure out why, aside from geography and/or economics.
The bible says both in the OT and NT that gay marriage and gay sex is an abomination to God. The bible states that no transgendered person can enter into heaven. The bible says your body is a heavenly temple and that marijuana is an abomination to God. The bible states that God formed you in your mothers womb so abortion is an abomination to God. The bible states that other world religions like islam are followers of Satan sent to confuse Christians.

If you read the bible you can see why they voted for Trump. Yahweh, the father in the bible is kind of an authoritarian dick who must be obeyed or else you will be killed and punished for eternity. Trump is like a beacon for far right ultra religious weirdos. He promises to get rid of everything that the bible says is wrong and the things he is on the fence about, he can be convinced and reasoned with to why its wrong.
 

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The bible says both in the OT and NT that gay marriage and gay sex is an abomination to God. The bible states that no transgendered person can enter into heaven. The bible says your body is a heavenly temple and that marijuana is an abomination to God. The bible states that God formed you in your mothers womb so abortion is an abomination to God. The bible states that other world religions like islam are followers of Satan sent to confuse Christians.

If you read the bible you can see why they voted for Trump. Yahweh, the father in the bible is kind of an authoritarian dick who must be obeyed or else you will be killed and punished for eternity. Trump is like a beacon for far right ultra religious weirdos. He promises to get rid of everything that the bible says is wrong and the things he is on the fence about, he can be convinced and reasoned with to why its wrong.
I live among these people.... The thing that baffles me is how they turn all that off when it's time to evaluate HIS behavior... He's an adulterer? So what? He's a liar? So what? He's cheated endless numbers of people who work for him? So what? He pays porn stars? So what? He inappropriately touches women? So what? And on and on and on... but he'll pretend to be against abortion (unless his women need one) and he'll pretend to love 2 Corinthians as long as he doesn't have to know what it says or means. etc. etc. etc.

Between that and him being completely ignorant about damned near everything I just can't understand the appeal.
 
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jklmnop

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Bernie and Elizabeth Warren are obviously both still very sharp even though they're 70+, but that's today. They're also wayyy more likely than they would have been 10 years ago to decline mentally, develop heath problems, or just drop over dead. The presidency is on a different level compared to all other political positions, and the extreme wear that it puts on everyone that holds the job is pretty well documented.

I agree that age is just one factor among many, but I think it's a bigger factor than a lot of people think. Competency in general is much more important than most voters think. One silver lining of Donald Trump being elected president is that it very clearly illustrates the importance of a lot of non-policy aspects of the job that most people just take for granted.

Most of the big policy disagreements between the current candidates concern things that exist outside of what's realistically possible anyway. Things like Medicaid for all and free college can be stopped by a president, but they can't happen because of a president. If we could go back in time and replace 2008 Obama with Sanders, Olympia Snowe still wouldn't have voted for the public option, let alone Medicaid for all. Congress is who makes legislation and public opinion is what moves congress (sometimes). Sometimes a president can move public opinion on something a little bit, but usually it doesn't amount to much.

Because people tend to get tired of terrible things, public opinion has shifted a lot on health care and gun control, so we could very likely see meaningful legislation post-election. If we're talking about legislation that can actually get through congress, I'm pretty sure there's almost 0 difference between what a President Elizabeth Warren would sign into law vs. what a President Cory Booker would sign into law though.

p.s. People still greatly overrate Donald Trump's chances of being reelected. The idea that people are just going to stay home if they're not super excited about the Democratic nominee just isn't very realistic. Most people that disapprove of him would walk through lava to vote for an inflatable Santa over Trump. Anything can happen in a single election, but this one is about him, his number suck, and they're not going anywhere, other than possibly down if he keeps flailing like a madman.

(I did not make this it already existed)
 

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This one I still can't figure out why, aside from geography and/or economics. Or, the hatred he spews aligns with their views (the racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc.)
The more I read about evangelicals and what they have to say about Trump, the harder it is to dismiss the notion that our government is now being influenced and to an ever-greater extent run by truly crazy people who really do believe in and covet an end times. And in pursuit of that end they consider the fate of other human beings on this planet wholly irrelevant. Just from last week there were some bonkers quotes in this piece on Robert Jeffress and other Trump evangelicals (emphasis added):

“As a Christian, I believe that regardless of what happens in Washington, D.C., that the general trajectory of evangelicalism is going to be downward until Christ returns,” he explained. “If you read the scripture, it’s not: Things get better and better and more evangelical-friendly or Christian-friendly; it is, they get worse and more hostile as the culture does. . . . I think most Christians I know see the election of Donald Trump as maybe a respite, a pause in that. Perhaps to give Christians the ability and freedom more to share the gospel of Christ with people before the ultimate end occurs and the Lord returns.”


edit: on a related note, has anyone watched The Family yet?
 
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micky

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“As a Christian, I believe that regardless of what happens in Washington, D.C., that the general trajectory of evangelicalism is going to be downward until Christ returns,” he explained. “If you read the scripture, it’s not: Things get better and better and more evangelical-friendly or Christian-friendly; it is, they get worse and more hostile as the culture does. . . . I think most Christians I know see the election of Donald Trump as maybe a respite, a pause in that. Perhaps to give Christians the ability and freedom more to share the gospel of Christ with people before the ultimate end occurs and the Lord returns.”
Holy shit.
edit: on a related note, has anyone watched The Family yet?
I probably should, but I'm not sure I can handle it.
 
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jklmnop

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Holy shit.

I probably should, but I'm not sure I can handle it.
Yeah I've been putting it off but I think I will queue it up after finishing Years and Years, which has been strangely comforting so far in its real-world-adjacent insanity.

Apparently (per a review) The Family is partly reenactments and kind of goofily produced so perhaps that makes it a bit easier of a watch, idk.
 
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micky

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Yeah I've been putting it off but I think I will queue it up after finishing Years and Years, which has been strangely comforting so far in its real-world-adjacent insanity.

Apparently (per a review) The Family is partly reenactments and kind of goofily produced so perhaps that makes it a bit easier of a watch, idk.
Is it wrong that I'd still rather watch Religulous?

EDIT: Also, what do you think of Years and Years? It's still on my list.
 
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jklmnop

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Is it wrong that I'd still rather watch Religulous?


> web search
> 2008 American documentary film written by and starring comedian Bill Maher

Yes.

EDIT: Also, what do you think of Years and Years? It's still on my list.
Years and Years is zeitgeist TV -- it captures our modern moment very well. I don't know how it ends, though (on ep 5 of 6 rn). I think anyone engaged enough to post in this thread would enjoy it.

edit: Wow
 
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President Donald Trump has suggested dropping nuclear bombs into hurricanes to stop them from causing damage to the US, Axios reported on Sunday.

The report said that the president suggested the idea on multiple occasions to senior officials at the Department of Homeland Security and other national security officials.

One source present at a hurricane briefing at the White House at an unspecified date told Axios that Trump suggested something along the lines of: "I got it. I got it. Why don't we nuke them? They start forming off the coast of Africa, as they're moving across the Atlantic, we drop a bomb inside the eye of the hurricane and it disrupts it. Why can't we do that?"

The person who was briefing Trump on the hurricane reportedly responded, "Sir, we'll look into that."
But the source added that when Trump repeated the suggestion, people in the room were shocked and thought, "What the f---? What do we do with this?"
Probably just another one of those hilarious jokes I guess.
 
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